@Paint Proggie Experts: Move/Scale Layer?

[Osram]

While the main focus of my work on BoB2 right now is the next patch, I am making progress with the "Skinner's Pack" as well, both implementing features and with features taking shape in my head.

I am thinking about "decals", IOW emblems, ID letters, insignia, tail flash, technical officer marking, "bought by Loughborough" inscriptions, kill marking, maybe roundel etc.

These will have to be placed by the skinner on top of the main texture, IOW this is a pure 2D operation. The skinner will (hopefully) be able to do this in his paint proggie and will need the 3D model in the game mainly for the final check only. I could imagine it working like this:

1. The Skinner paints the emblem and saves it. It contains alpha.
2. The Skinner loads the main scheme.
3. The Skinner loads the emblem he painted into a new layer.
4. He scales the emblem and moves it so that it is where it should be.
5. He now needs to find out how much he scaled and moved it. As an example: Scale could be 18% in x and 16% in y and the move could be 308 / 849 pixels of the 2048 / 2048 main texture.
6. He puts the emblem into the correct directory and basically adds emblem name, condition (say use if unit is JG26) and the numbers from step 5 into an ascii file. BoB.exe reads this ascii file and does the rest.

Does this sound like a good way to do emblems?

Also, it would be nice if people could write a few sentences per major paint proggie, including GIMP, on how to achieve steps 3 to 5. Documentation is a big part of the Skinner's Pack and not everyone that will use it will be an expert in his paint proggie, so we need a description. Also, I am not 100% sure 4 and especially 5 are possible in all paint proggies. OTOH if there is one freeware tool that allows one to do this, then people could paint in their favorite program and do the positioning of the emblem in this tool.

[turnipkiller]

In Gimp, all you have to do is paste your emblem into your new layer.

Before anchoring it down, you can scale it (SHIFT T) and the percentage of the scaled down emblem is shown in decimal form: ie. .50 x-axis, .45 y-axis, so 50% and 45% respectively. Note that these numbers are the finished scale of the emblem, not the percentage taken down if that makes sense.

I am unsure of what you mean by the movement part, do you mean the location on the main texture? If so, simply moving the mouse over the emblem would give an x- y- location of the emblem on the texture.

Just out of curiosity why does BoB need to know how much the emblem was scaled m8?

[Osram]

This is part of what we call "MultiSkin". This means every plane in the air can look different, for example having different ID letters. This means the ID letter can not be naked into the main texture, else you would have hundreds of different 2kx2k skins in VRAM, which does not fit. So, there is a 2k x2k "main skin" and each letter is one say 128x256 texture. Speaking of ID letters only and one plane type only and no propellors etcs you would then have 27 textures in VRAM, namely main texture plus 26 letters and could have hundreds of different planes in the air.

So, the BoB.exe has to place the letters at runtime and of course needs to know where/how large. The skinner painting the emblem must have done the historic research or had the research sent to him, so he is the right man to determine the position and size.

I hope that explains it, if not ask again and maybe add how you would expect it to work.

I played around with GIMP a bit and found out:

Opening the two files (main texture plus emblem) into two windows, "copy" one and "paste into selection" into the other works nicely . BTW, it seems on all my computers I have the German GIMP version, so menu names are translated :-/.

A right click and then going onto the menu "Layers" I see two interesting items, one of which is the Shift T one BTW. One is called "size" and one "scale". One scales (good) and one lets you crop the new layer (which is NOT what I want). One allows a preview, actually you can move the corners and see the numbers in the dialog change (nice!) one does not. One only shows the scale factor (say 0.12 for 12%) and one also shows "Versatz" (movement/translation) which is what I need. Unfortunately none of the two combines everything I need .

BTW, can GIMP record macros? If so, one might be able to "visually do it" and extract the numbers from the macro.

[Osram]

Ok, here is a procudure that is somewhat in-elegant, but works :

A. Open the two files, for example 2k x 2k main texture and 256x128 emblem
B. Scale the Emblem to the same size as the main texture or else things will depend on the size of the emblem
C. "Paste into selection". Due to step B one now has a clearly defined situation, both pictures are exactly on top of each other. Obviously GIMP uses the lower right corner as reference. So, this is now at 2048 x 2048.
D. Go into dialog / layers and slide the opaqueness from 100% to say 30%
E. Press Shift T to "scale the layer".
F. Click on one of the 4 corners and move the corner. You will for unknown to me reasons now see three pictures, the main texture, the emblem in complete size and the newly scaled emblem. Without step D the "covering all" emblem could now obstruct the view to the area you want to see. In a nice for us feature, the scaled emblem is not affected by the slider. (Sigh - hard to explain)
G. Until now, you needed to see the complete 2k x 2k, but once you have roughly scaled, you can zoom in with the "+" key and use the scrollbars to focus on the area the emblem is positioned on
H. Move the corners to the final position. There is a dialog "scale" that automatically opene when one clicks on a corner. This now contains the scalefactors in x and y, with 2 digit precision.
I. To find the position, move the cursor over the lower left corner of the emblem "bounding box" and see the corrdinates in the status bar, for example (630, 417) in my case. Together with the complete size of 2k x 2k, one (say a small tool I can write or even bob.exe) can determine the translation in percent.

[adlabs6]

Is this technique used for single use insignias like a noseart, or does this also apply for repeat use markings like roundels, numbers, and letters?

[Osram]

I expect to have a first internal test version of the Skinner's Pack in a week or two, so things will then become clearer and you can see things working, which is often easier than explaining them, especially in a foreign language. If you have BoB2 and and want to test it, Adlabs, you will be welcome .

So, here only in telegram style:
The idea is to have a VERY flexible system that allows the skinner (without help from a modeller or someone else) to either change the "baseskin" according to almost arbitrary criteria, for example change from one scheme to another for different units at different times.

Using the same criteria you can choose "decals" and can determine where to put them and how large they are. For example you can say "unitA from 17.11.1940 onwards has as emblem xyz.bmp in large on the cowling, but the lead plane instead has a inscritption in extra large under the canopy". Or "the decal appears when the gear is down and this when it is up". So, you could light up the gear indicator. Or say the modeller of the Me110 decided to use the me109 tires since they in his opinion are the same and you disagree, you can say "if it is a me110, replace the tire by texture MaSupaTires.bmp".

I once did something similar in the furniture industry for door handles and people used it for stuff way outside of what was originally envisioned.

To be honest I have no idea how say Il2 does it. However, I know SF:P1 has 4 criteria to go by (nation ID unit ID plane ID and a 4th I forgot). I plan to have WAY in excess of 100.

To answer directly, you can certainly use it for ID numbers, letters, emblems etc. You can also use it for roundels it it does make sense if there are several styles like the larger more centred ones and the smaller ones placed nearer the wing tips. If a base skin like say ther black/white underside one always uses one style of roundels, there is no reason to use Multiskins for this, just "bake" them into the baseskin.

[adlabs6]

This sounds good, it's taken me some thinking to understand it as no other sim I've owned uses such a method. I will check to see if my Photoshop Elements 2 can give stats for scale as you mention.

Since the scale and position are editable, there is great flexibility here it seems. It would appear that I can create a ascii file that contains something like:

aircraft type "a"
squadron "s"
decal name "emblem1.*"
decal scale "%x; %y"
decal position "x; y"

Would a file like this exist for each plane? Or would there be a single ascii file that organizes all the aircraft types perhaps?

Also, I thank you for the kind offer of testing the package, but I don't have BoB2. I just spent most of my free cash on some telescope parts!

[Osram]

Ok. BTW, I just made the announcement for the Skinner's Pack on the BoB2 forum.

I will check to see if my Photoshop Elements 2 can give stats for scale as you mention.

Good, thanks, I need scale and position. For GIMP, AFAIK, as I wrote above, this is not easily possible, so I get the position in a kludgy way by holding the cursor over a corner of the selected area and reading off the coordinates in the status bar.

It would appear that I can create a ascii file that contains something like:

Yes, only more flexible

Would a file like this exist for each plane? Or would there be a single ascii file that organizes all the aircraft types perhaps?

Right now it is per skin and I might well leave it at that. What are the pros/cons versus the per-3D model approach?

I can think of:
+ Easier to change a texture for all models, for example a prop shared between Hurri and Spit. You still have the complete flexibility though, as inside the file you can make it work on one model only.

+ The Skinner of course definitely has to say which texture he is changing. If he does not mention the model, it might make it a tiny bit easier.

- As medium term aim, one directory per model would be nice, at least for the main models like airplanes.

[Osram]

Interesting that Elements 2 and GIMP are so similar in this aspect. I will put this into the Skinner's Pack docu, thanks Adlabs6.

I will indeed leave things on a per-skin base for now.

Perhaps broad definitions could be applied to each model (or better to each squadron), with exceptions indicated for each specifically skinned aircraft?

Yes, that is possible.

One concept I plan is that basically one plane in the world has one skin. So, say, the 5th plane of II/JG26 has a certain look. There can be times when it changes, but basically the look is determined by what plane is and not by say the user choosing from a list of skins or playing a certain mission. Instead there is an indirect effect: The mission says which unit and time is involved, or the user chooses this and then he will see the according skin

[adlabs6]

I see, sounds good. Having the time involved seems that it will make for easy selection of skins for that period with little effort by the player.