Reply With Quoteno comment ....
Senior Member
Mike AKA Mjag has bullied me into this . . . . and he knows it.
He has helped me along big time by building a really fantastic model in Modo.
This has taken a bunch of the worry out of the project where lighting is concerned.
Started Sunday, with a fair amount of detail to be added, but hope to have it sorted by the end of next week.
Critique welcome . . . but not from Gaeten"he knows why"
only joking mate.
BTW, if anyone has a good photo of the prop, that would be really handy thanks.
Senior Member
no comment ....
Grand Wazoo
Pretty nice for someone who dabbles in those newfangled metal planes!
You say it's a 3D render? Can we see more views of it please?
What about that engine? Have you done it yet? Where are those bell cranks? Where is the manufacturer's rudder stencil? C'mon, get those details in QUICK!
Nice "fatty yellow varnish" color. The blue looks good too. But the red? I had thought it was more toward the orange side of red? But I'll trust you if you can vouch for it.
You might also consider lightening to the tire color some. There were what look like dark colored tires on French planes but many, if not most tires were light grey back then. It's a nice period touch that enthusiasts appreciate.
Have you decided how you'll handle the brown edges?
I take it you've been trolling over at the Aerodrome for info?
Again, great work
FAST AND BULBOUS!
Grand Wazoo
BTW, if you've not been here yet...
Nieuport 11
And stuff about the edging-
Nieuport 11 Bebe - what colour is the line?
Nieuport 10/11 Perimeter tape color ad nauseum
FAST AND BULBOUS!
Senior Member
I have soooo many questions on this aircraft, the math just does not add up . . .
Pick at it please . . .
And MJags model this drawing is based on . . .
Last edited by Jesters-Ink; 30th January 2010 at 05:13. Reason: Added Mikes model
Grand Wazoo
YEAH BUDDY!
So far, math or no, you're doing a really beautiful job on this one.
Say, do you have Windsock's Niueuport Fighters Vol.1?
About propellers, it looks like there were several types used...past that I have nothing really to go on.
I think I'm following you now, you're using the 3D model for reference and lighting cues, right?
So what does math have to do with it? This is art buddy
MJag, that model looks REALLY REALLY nice! How much detail is on it? Down to the nuts and bolts and stitching? Is all the structural woodwork under the fabric?
Can you tell I'm really into this one?
FAST AND BULBOUS!
Senior Member
Well thanks a bunch BH on the comments.
Well on the detail end of things, I went pretty heavy detail on the engine, gun and body. But I'm sorry to say no frame work. I though about it but decide not too this time around.
This really began as a test for me and Jes just to see what would come of it. I have to say for me this is the first of many that will be done. Now the hardest part is which one will be next
But drop me a line BH I will send ya some high-res shots
Mjag
Senior Member
Cant comment as to the accuracy or otherwise of this work, but I think it suits the lovely subtlety always evident in Jesters work.
I'm seriously considering transferring over to 3D.
Last edited by GiantFlyingRobots; 30th January 2010 at 07:44. Reason: Needed an emoticon for emphasis...
Senior Member
Right then, here goes . . .
Every time we solve one question, it asks about three more.
Its like splitting the atom only harder, with a wider area of devastation.
I knew WWI stuff was going to be 99% research and 1% drawing, with long days and nights spent sifting through endless smudges of black and white “so called” photographs, but this really is a can of worms.
We have some good blue print type’e drawings for the Nieuport 17, but nothing even close for the 11. We have no idea what diameter the prop is, all we know from the black and white smudges there were about half a dozen types used. In other words, if they had a prop from what ever aircraft, it was used, (or so it would seem).
Wing struts, wing height, angles and placement are all best guess.
The real killer is like most aircraft subjects, is the photo of the real deal, or some cobbled together semi rebuilt replica . . . . We are seeing a lot of contradictory details, so the model and drawing have been constructed with two heads crashing and the best guestimate.
Area of discrepancies:-
Wing strut placement and angles plus profile
Top wing angle and height
Brackets connecting the wing and struts
The metal panel from the cowl to the cockpit (some have it all the way past the pit, some have it half way to the pit.
The Lewis placement and angle, (no interrupter gear so we believe it fires over the prop, not that the prop was plated)
The front hatch, some show it hinged with end fasteners, some show it with eight fasteners and no hinge
We have also seen photographs where the fuselage struts do not impede the stitching on the nose and some that do
Even the small stuff like how the movables are connected . . . . . . . .
Stitching crisscross or zig-zag
Exactly right BH, Mike has built the model, I have made a drawing from it. Mike is also going to do some profiles from the model including plan and front elevation shots, but more importantly, we are going to attempt to set some scenes with it.
I do have that book.
GFR, I take you back to skyraider3D’s comments, if you plan to use the model to its full potential, ie full 4 view and 3D scenes, then it is worth the time building the model. If you want to stick to profile work, then it really isn’t cost effective.
Mike has invested over $****.** in software and hardware and just about all of his free time to make the massive progress he has made. I have attempted to get into Modo, but my brain goes on holiday and takes my computer along for company after about one hour of it.
Keep in mind, I have started and finished both the MiG and the Sea Fury whilst the Nieuport has been built and also done plenty of research into the nieuport along the way.
Last edited by Jesters-Ink; 30th January 2010 at 18:52. Reason: added pic
Grand Wazoo
YEA!!!!! It's a REAL plane now that it has it's rudder stencil!!!!!!!!!!
Mjag, line dropped
But that's what makes it so much funEvery time we solve one question, it asks about three more.
Seriously, you should delve into the Aerodrome forum if you haven't already. That will be the best bet for answers if there are any to be had.
A lot of the differences or discrepancies you're seeing in war time photos are a major problem with WW1 planes. Different production batches, different factories, and many field modification cloud things up.
You'll want to keep in mind that sometimes factories who were to build planes didn't receive plans tools to build these planes, it was common practice to just give the factory a complete plane and the workers would use it as a pattern to copy.
It was a VERY different time!
About the props, I never got into the whole aerodynamics stuff but they had a simple formula for engine rpm, pitch and diameter. There were many different types of props but they'd mostly get you the same result.
There is a lot of solid research on British aero props and most German fighter props are known down to the manufacturer. I've seen several good airfoil drawings for German props that you could use to carve your own accurate reproduction. But aside from SPAD, I haven't seen much on French props.
I would imagine good size and pitch specs could be found in the old Flight and Aeroplane magazines.
I do have a LARGE stack of WW1 Aero magazines, maybe I have some stuff on the Bebe, I'll look.
To do this stuff right I think you really need to become an expert on the plane(s) and spend the rest of your life researching it. If you're into it, that's no problem of course
That is most definitely correct. I'm pretty sure some late production models and probably later exports did have sync gear and a gun mounted over the cowling.The Lewis placement and angle, (no interrupter gear so we believe it fires over the prop, not that the prop was plated)
Just to muddy things up more, Nieuport used a light blue protective varnish(?) on some metal parts. You can see it in photos of the N.11 in the Musée de l'Air on the gun mount and some strut fittings. I don't know if it was universally used but it was pretty common.
Almost forgot to mention, THIS IS JUST PLAIN BEAUTIFUL!!!! You're really hitting this one just right. That French red looks just like the color I have in my mind's eye now
(I'm going to have to rethink my Halberstadt if I ever get the info I need to finish it)
FAST AND BULBOUS!
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