Various colors

[BLOWHARD]

Oh poo! I posted this here 2 days ago...but I obviously didn't because it's not here I guess I didn't hit the button

Anyway, what I was saying about a color "range" is illustrated here-
This is the dreaded WW1 RFC PC-10. No one, and I mean NO ONE can agree on what color it really was. Here are several RGB colors I've gotten, 2 from samples, books and several from the web, mostly from the Aerodrome-

Now I imaging some colors are ones most of us can agree on but what about those that are somewhat of a mystery like PC-10? Would we want to include all versions we've found throughout our research that have validity or choose one or two that we feel personally to be correct? None of us really knows of course, relic samples and war time color samples could have changes over the years and modern restorations could be correct or just as easily be spurious. Perhaps we should be including a bit of research or at least our reason for why we believe one color to be correct over others?
I guess it doesn't matter much about something as sticky as PC-10 because not many people go in for WW1 color. But this is an illustration of something that might come up from time to time.

I don't suppose anyone here has some kind of color reading hardware like the fancy gadgets paint shops use? Something to convert actual color chips into RGB numbers?
Also, is there anyone here with a Methuen color handbook?
I've got pantone and FS decks here as well as both the original and new Monogram Luftwaffe guides with color chips. Also I have Ullmann's Luftwaffe color chips. I think it's really helpful to have something "real" in front of you along with what you see on your screen.

[Rufe]

Hello Dave,

I'll take a guess at these colors. From left to right, top row first.

RNAS Khaki A
Admiralty Gray or Metal Gray or RNAS Dyed Spirits/Varnish
PC10 1916
Early Dyed Spirits Brown

RNAS Khaki (faded)
PC10 1918
Manders Red-Brown
RNAS Khaki B

Cheers,

Rufe

[BLOWHARD]

Heya Rufe, you made it over here!
You're probably right about what the colors are...but...Those colors were all listed as PC10 on various websites. Not nearly as good as your charts!!!

[Rufe]

One of the problems with PC10 is that there were four distinct versions of it. (Not to mention PC8 and PC12, and confusion with RNAS Khaki)

Add to that, the several Finishing Schemes, and you can end up with quite a range of colors.

The biggest problem of all, though, is that there has been way too much truncating of information whenever PC10 is discussed. For example, key elements of the Air Board's 3 separate findings, on 3 separate dates, are often lumped together with a recipe for Proprietary Khaki, and we all pull out our hair trying to make sense of it.

Perhaps there is interest here for discussing this?

[gamary]

Perhaps there is interest here for discussing this?

I'm a total novice as far as WW1 colours are concerned and I would be interested in learning, yes. I knew there were debates about PC10 but I didn't know there were several versions.

I'm afraid I'd be listening and learning more than discussing and providing valuable input. Some other members might have something to say, though.

[Jesters-Ink]

You seem to know more about it than the rest of us Rufe and I'm one of those who is happy to trust people's research when it's backed up by reasonable argument and a side order of proof.
A lot of us here cant even agree on colours used on modern day aircraft with the proof right in front of us, that coupled with the lack of interest in WWI aircraft, certainly makes a debate like this interesting reading on simmers.
For me, researching anything involving WWI aircraft is like panning for gold, if you know where to look, you might just get lucky, but sadly most of the time, data proves elusive and in some cases contradictory.
Lead on gentlemen, I look forward to the results.

[BLOWHARD]

I think Rufe is the first person to find a reliable way to convert Methuen colors to RGB values. There's a GREAT thread about color and the conversion over at the Aerodrome-
Hey GrahamB - Resene Colour Matching
WAY TO GO RUFE AND GRAHAM B!!!!!

[BLOWHARD]

****But now, the important part, wasn't this part of another thread???? I don't remember starting it. Plus, the title, "Germany?"
Was this moved? Maybe I should change the title?
What's the deal with this thread????

[Rufe]

Maybe starting another thread would be better, PC10 is not what you would expect to find under "Germany various colors"

Either that, or can we rename this one? (can you rename an existing thread?)

[BLOWHARD]

Dunno, but I'm pretty sure this was part of a longer thread. Where are those guys, ADLABS? SERVAL?