Ever closer . . . .

[Jesters-Ink]

Something for you gents to have a pick at . . . . . . .

Works numbers for both AC would be very handy if anyone knows them pls.
Grafs AC whilst he was with JG/50r.



Much thanksness to Otter for new info.

[CRIPES_A_MIGHTY]

Are you sure its "Green 1"?..I thought it was "Red 1".
Bf-109G-6 (Wk-Nr 15913)

[CRIPES_A_MIGHTY]

Thats the number for the one with the Red nose.

[CRIPES_A_MIGHTY]

Looks like he flew a number of aircraft with JG/50.
Bf 109 G-6/R2 W.Nr. 15919 "Green 1"

[Jesters-Ink]

That will go into the pool with the rest of the data I have here thanks Cripes.

And another updated work------>

[CRIPES_A_MIGHTY]

Hey!..no probs...I pretty good at digging up info online..etc.
I got some info online and some from books I have.


That JG27?... I know they had white ID band in N.Africa..and then some had green ID bands, when some were transfered to the defence of Germany in late 44...I think...well sure.
There are a couple JG27 aircraft I'd like for my website.
Attached the Graf Red 1 for you.
The "Yellow 14" and "Yellow 9". Are the 2 I'm after.
They are the last two 109's shot down by Major.Preddy just before his untimely death.
The problem is there seems to be so many variations of RLM schemes for JG27, Ive been unable to locate a good profile of said unit, II/JG27.
I have a few pictures..but nothing realy seems to match the picture.
Also the idea was to create a "Last Flight" mission for IL2 1946.
Oh well...

[Jesters-Ink]

Hey Cripes you really are addicted aren’t you
First rule of thumb, don't trust anything or anyone, not even the pilot of any given AC less he under 21 years of age. No disrespect, but most of um couldn't even tell you what mark aircraft they flew let alone colour or markings.
The internet is invariably wrong most of the time and books can be as bad.

What you have to do is gather as much data on your subject as you can, then keep looking well past the point at which you think you have enough.
Talk to everyone.

The drawing takes no time at all, gathering all the necessary data takes forever.

Here is an example for you to have a read through, its quite an education.


--> Hauptmann Gustav Rodel's G-4 help please - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

[gamary]

First rule of thumb, don't trust anything or anyone, not even the pilot of any given AC less he under 21 years of age

Very true. I remember an interview of a Russian ace who was shocked when the interviewer mentioned Ju 88 used as dive-bombers. He said it was perfectly untrue and ridiculous and accused the reporter of incompetence, simply because he'd never seen or heard about it. He was perfectly sincere, and the reporter wisely chose to shut up and go on with the interview.

So one can suppose that they would forget details, especially 40,50 or 60 years later. Often administrative sources or mechanics will provide better evidence concerning numbers, colours, etc...

[BLOWHARD]

Didn't we go through this ones before? I could have sworn...

I take it you don’t have the Graf & Grislawski book? I still think that will be your best source. If it's too expensive, sell some more prints
Seriously, I think I've posted this stuff so it's probably old news but...
A Portuguese (?) website that lists Green 1 as being W.Nr.15913-
http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.n.../graf.htm]graf
An early Claes Sundin profile, no W.Nr. listed-

Two profiles from the Graf & Grislawski book by Sundin-
(I'm sure you've seen these Jester )


It's pretty easy to surmise that information on the color of the fuselage number must have come up in the preparations for the book
Without the book, I think your best bet is to try here-
The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group - Powered by vBulletin
Not sure what section of the forum you should ask your questions on but someone there will know the answers

Almost forgot, I think you should knock back the happy hunter badge, it looks like it's trying to be in front of the wing instead of on the fuselage. Maybe tone the colors down? You'll see Claes has a similar problem on his.

[BLOWHARD]

The "Yellow 14" and "Yellow 9". Are the 2 I'm after.
They are the last two 109's shot down by Major.Preddy just before his untimely death.
The problem is there seems to be so many variations of RLM schemes for JG27, Ive been unable to locate a good profile of said unit, II/JG27.

Cripes, about the paint on your 2 planes; Not only were there newer and older planes serving side by side at this time of the war, but planes and sub assemblies of the new planes varied greatly from one production batch to the next. I'm not sharp enough to tell what production batch a plane came from just by looking at the camouflage, but many can down to the W.Nr. block, factory and approximate date of construction But you'll need some real photos of these planes to start. There's not telling if the painting you have is accurate or completely spurious. I can tell you, if the painting is correct, that those planes could be K-4s but may be G-10s or G-14s, painted with 81 and 83 upper surfaces with 76 lower surfaces and probably one of the green-gray mixes sometimes referred to as RLM 84 on the fuselage sides and bottom.
Another possibility is that they were painted 75/82 or 75/83.
The tails are almost certainly painted wrong. The kind of camouflage shown here was done by brush, just on the tail unit, and had hard edges-

The tails were made of wood and painted as sub assemblies.
Notice the light spot on the lower rudder? That would be RLM 76. The fuselage under the tail is probably one of the green-gray colors.
*BUT* there's no telling, without photos, if both planes were painted similarly or even if they were from the same unit of JG27.
Do your records even record what type of 109 they were?
In a case like this TOTALLY disregard ANY paintings and profiles and only look at photos. The sad thing is you may never find enough information to be sure.

One more fly for the ointment, are you sure they were JG 27 and not KG(J) 27? That's an easy mistake to make although the fuselage bands of KG(J) 27 at green and white checkerboards. The artist of the painting might have gotten that wrong.