Dora

[BLOWHARD]

dreaded Lufwaffe Colors Discussion

I see I'm still misinterpreting things here. I thought your position was that those profiles and anything using the "mystery" color was wrong because it can't be proven. I'm not arguing what exactly that shade is, or that it definitely is on that particular plane. What I am saying is there is something other than 76 or 65 blue-gray used on those late war planes and it looks muddy green-ish. It's pretty clear in the photos of this plane that there is another color there. You can argue what the color is, but you can't argue that it is completely "dubious" like you stated earlier.
I took your first and second post here that you didn't believe that color exists and that it's completely a pipe dream. It seemed to me, I gather wrongly, that you wanted to talk in absolute facts.
Now I see you agree that there is latitude, I wasn't getting from your earlier dismissive comments.

Basically everything is right and nothing is wrong

Not really true either. You can make an informed decision. It's ridiculous to say "this is a fact" and that it's etched in stone but it's just as ridiculous to say nothing counts and give up.
AFAIK there are no absolutes anywhere in history. If people could try not to be so inflexible and dismiss offhand anything they don't agree with, the dreaded Luftwaffe color debate wouldn't be a problem at all.

Pacific theatre!

Hehehehehe, are you saying there's no debate about PTO colors? Where have you been?

[Supah]

I mostly work on the principle that if it sorta looks like the picture and it works in the illustration why worry?

[gamary]

I am really enjoying this. Just post anything about Luftwaffe colours and watch the whole place go ablaze.

AFAIK there are no absolutes anywhere in history.

I'm sure we could find some. Julius Caesar is dead, for example? Sorry for pulling your leg, BH.

Also:

RLM 82 is a light shade of orange, while RLM 76 is actually more of a pink than anything else.

Just adding my humble contribution to the debate.

[JMSmith]

go back to your knitting numbnuts

[Baron]

Hi folks!

Just a short input to this thread – better said my theory.

I have read a lot of material regarding Luftwaffe paints, but it seems this is a never ending story. RLM 84 officially never existed.

For me this colour is a result of the chaos in the last months of war. There was no central plant that produced the colours for all the aircraft or aircraft-part production plants. They used the colours they could get from their local paint producer.

These local producers just got a formula how to mix the colours with pigments. If no blue or just a little bit was available I’m sure they used what they could get – just to deliver in time. For me the colour looks like a thinned or mixed RLM 02 with blue.

That could be the answer why there were so many different versions of RLM 76. Maybe they just got no light blue pigments

The Bf 109 picture posted by BH is a good example. The fuselage was made by another company as the lower part of the engine cover.

Ju 388 at Silver Hill: Fuselage RLM 76. Covers for the undercarriage are RLM 65.

On many late war Fw 190 b/w pics you see that the fuselage colour is much darker than the blue of the engines, tail section, wings etc.

Simply a result of different production plants.

Cheers, Simon

Conclusion: If you do late war Luftwaffe planes it’s impossible to be 100% sure if you have used the right colours. Also RLM 81/82/83 not just RLM 76.

[BLOWHARD]

Thanks Simon, well said. No need to argue colors, only the need to check the reference and be aware of the possibilities.

[JMSmith]

at last we all agree,

thanks simon your thoughts are on the same lines as mine

[BLOWHARD]

your thoughts are on the same lines as mine

I thought we were arguing all this time!

The only thing I would add is samples collected from several different planes from different manufacturers do show a consistency of the mystery color. It's something more than a one-off mix if you can get matches from a range of planes. Other than that...
But I do agree that the number 84, although convenient, isn't a correct identification.

[GiantFlyingRobots]

Bumping another ancient thread, as I endeavor to finish some old profiles once and for all.

Looking for images of Hans Dortenmann's D-9 I have the one of him entering/exiting the cockpit, I understand that there are another two known images of this aircraft, and if I have them they aren't marked as his, so if anybody has them I love to see them.

Looking to confirm some of the suspicions that I have with regards to how I have seen this aircraft presented elsewhere.

[Otterkins2]

About time you got back to this one! I'll look thru my files and see what I have. Great shot of a Panther for your signature by the way.