Apology up front.

[Otterkins2]

Look at the tonal difference between the light colour on the cowl and the light colour (RLM 76) on the fuselage. For the longest time I was sure the cowl was 70 or 74 over 76. I'm not so sure any more. There are a lot of instances where the Germans tried to tone down the yellow on the cowl with the body cam colour. Nothing like screaming "Hi filthy Soviet pilots...here I am!" and making yourself a target for every enemy fighter for miles around. Stealth was a serious issue. The tonal difference to my eyes is so different I think Kel has it right.

[JMSmith]

hi BH,

yup i found the same images, look at the first image lower rudder and compare with cowling, then on the next image my arguement falls apart

i was hoping someone had different images where i could try to make sense of this, any images out there of the cowls without the mottling.

i quite agree yellow is one of the worst colours to work with in black and white, unless it is ortho flim then yellow appears black!

by the way, i never trust profiles, because they are based on the artists ideas and we don't always get it right. why do you think i am always on you guys backs, i would like to think that one day people will look at a profile and think, "yes that is correct"

hi jester,

where the f*** have ya been, keep pushing your look and i will be round there.

hi otter,

i have come to the same position as you, i ain't sure we need more evidence, or even better, a shot of one of there aircraft done with ortho film.

i hate luftwaffe camouflage, it used to be my main subject, until so called experts started coming up with stupid conclusions, now i do them how "i" see them using official known colours and photos, this give me a 50% chance of being correct.
people like Ullman have gone beyond facts, if he had stuck to rlm and paint manufactors guides it would have been much better.

[Clint Mitchell]

Hi John

Those rlm and paint manufactors guides were not always so rigidly adhered to. You would expect this problem to be happening mostly during the chaos of the later years of the war for the Luftwaffe but there is physical evidence that the RLM rules were being broken much earlier during the BofB. For instance rumours of completely black 109's attacking bombers, a downed German bomber sporting RAF colours. Rumours are rumours though. Pass on your email john there is something relating to this matter that I would be intersted to hear your opinion on?

Thanks

Clint

[JMSmith]

hi clint,

its sagindragin@gmail.com

[Jesters-Ink]

Then show us what you got

[Clint Mitchell]

That's a bit rude Jester, I mean I hardly know you!


Oh you mean the article sorry.
I was eagerly awaiting Johns expert analysis on the some what controversial article. Hit me up with your e-mail Jesters (11MB). Interesting stuff all the same!

Clint

[JMSmith]

hi clint,

recieved it thank you, just having a major discussion about gelb 04 with keith(VT) will check it and give you my thoughts

[Clint Mitchell]

Cheers John

Perhaps you could fire a copy over to Jester's if you have his email?

Clint

[BLOWHARD]

Uh oh...it's getting ugly...almost as ugly as a camouflaged yellow nose

I still say you need to be SUPER informed about all this Luftwaffe stuff and then make the best most logical conclusion you can...but never completely rule anything out either.

Jester, do some more 109s quick so we can argue about those too!

[Clint Mitchell]

That's it exactly Blowhard! You never know. You can usually get things spot on position wise with a b&w photo but the colours Whole new ball game

I like using the term 'Educated Artistic License' you could get so hung up on the colours you would never get anything done. At least with Photoshop you can change them if new clear evidence becomes available. Just do the best you can with it. There's a lot of snobbery and arguments when it comes to colours especially Luftwaffe you can never please everyone.

Clint